Posts by Doug Mason

21

A problem with the book of Daniel

by wozza in

left the wts some years ago, but just before i left we were studying the daniel book that they produced in the book study .. i noticed something wrong in the bible account of daniel and brought this up at the end of the study when the conductor asked if everyone understood that nights study,.

i think i may have started a topic here some years ago about this event ,it was a time when i started to question the wts in my heart and mind.the scriptures are lengthy so i will just shorten things by describing the stories in daniel and how one point really got me thinking about things and perhaps made the brothers wierd out about me sand distance themselves ,here it is..........dan ch 1-4. daniels ( who came to be called belteshazzar)in babylon along with shadrach,meshach & abednego ,daniel,after praying with these 3, interprets and states what nebuchadnezzars dream is( we all know this ,the image with the head of gold body of iron and copper etc) and they are rewarded by being positions of authority.

daniel made ruler of the province and chief prefect over babylons wise men ,the 3 were made overseers of the administation of the province ,all very important jobs ,.

Doug Mason

There are so many problems with Daniel.

It is historically inaccurate, including the dating of Daniel's exile, Nebuchadnezzar's madness (confused with Nabonidus), wrong name of Babylon's last ruler and Persia's first ruler, etc., etc., etc.

The LXX is so different to the MT. (The Christians preferred Theodotian's translation to the LXX. Theodotian's is closer to the MT.)

The "furnace" and "lions' den" stories are so far fetched that one wonders if the ancients thought they were literal histories or whether they were parables teaching that God's people would survive despite their current problems (under Antiochus Epiphanes). (The stories of chapters 2 to 4 form an overall pattern, thus showing the moral being taught is that Yahweh is supreme, giving power to whoever it pleases. This was good news to the 2nd century readers.)

The writings can only be understood in the context of the Maccabeans.

When Jeremiah's prediction of Jewish restoration was obviously not coming to pass, the 2nd century writers changed the "70 years" to "7 times 70 years" to bring it down to their own times.

Doug

5

"Scholastic Dishonesty of the Watchtower"

by Doug Mason in

for those of you who do not have a copy of michael van buskirk's 1976 study:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/scholastic_dishonesty-_buskirk_-searchable-.pdf.

doug.

Doug Mason

For those of you who do not have a copy of Michael Van Buskirk's 1976 Study:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Scholastic_Dishonesty-_Buskirk_-searchable-.pdf

Doug

12

PDF of Advice for Kingdom Publishers (1939)

by MrMonroe in

i'm hoping to obtain a copy of the 1939 booklet advice for kingdom publishers.

it's a 16-page booklet that was written, i understand, to help us publishers as they embarked on the very vigorous witnessing campaigns that were largely aimed at provoking police and governments to take action against them.

i'm particularly interested in what specific advice they were given about creating or avoiding situations likely to result in their arrest.

Doug Mason

I do not know if this is of any use to you, as it is dated 1945:

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/orginst.html

Doug

22

Inspiration, inscripturation

by Doug Mason in

the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

Doug Mason

Village Idiot,

I provided that quotation to show the explanation of "inspiration" as employed by theologians.

The text of Bible has suffered more "corrections" and errors than there are words in the Bible. Over time, the text has been subjected to editors (redactors) who made accidental and deliberate changes, where human errors took place every time a scroll was copied (missing words, insertion of comments, etc., etc., etc.) Many textual critics have given up on the quest to determine the original "autographs".

And there is no universally accepted canon.

The Hebrew Scriptures are very much the product of the community exiled by the Babylonians and by those affected by it (Ezra, for example). In other words - religious/political propaganda. The Christian Scriptures are very much the product of a group whose allegiance was to Paul (did he invent Christianity?). They were in the minority for a long time, during which the Gnostics held sway over larger parts of the Christian community.

To say that the Bible is inspired by God because the Bible says it is inspired by God is pure circular reasoning.

To say that the Bible is human neither proves nor disproves whether there is a God (or Gods). People need to stop worshiping the Bible; Protestants complain that Catholics have idols, and then they turn around and worship a book.

Doug

22

Inspiration, inscripturation

by Doug Mason in

the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

Doug Mason

Richard,

Although I included the WTS's statement that "Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16", by no means does that mean I agree with that sentiment.

It is ironic that a statement should be held up to be true when the writer pretends to be Paul - and is hence dishonest.

The Bible as such did not take form until centuries after that letter was written, so it cannot be referring to the Biblical canon or its contents.

A canon needs a text to be accepted by the religious community as sacred, but a text can be considered to be sacred without the need for a canon. Hence Marcion accepted certain writings but that does not mean he had a canon.

Doug

22

Inspiration, inscripturation

by Doug Mason in

the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

Doug Mason

Caleb,

Not a problem. I appreciate your contribution and I was simply adding to your input.

Doug

22

Inspiration, inscripturation

by Doug Mason in

the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

Doug Mason

First, let me say that I do not believe that the Bible in any of its forms is the "Word of God". The intention of my initial post was to show that the WTS says that only the initial writing was "inspired of God" and these writings are no longer available, and that the WTS says that the Bible we now have is not inspired. I also wanted to indicate that the NT writers quoted from the range of sources, many of which are not available today.

I did not mention that the NT writers quoted from sources that are today considered to be apocryphal (1 Enoch, etc., etc., etc.).

In my desire to keep focused, I did not mention "canon" -- that is, the list(s) of writings which are considered sacred scripture. There is no list of universally accepted books. The idea of a Canon was initiated by Christians, likely motivated by moving from scrolls to the codex format. The Christians took several centuries to set upon a canon, with only the Catholic Church voting on the matter in the 15th century. Protestants have never taken a vote on the canon, accepting it by Tradition.

The formation of a canon by the Jews is shrouded in mystery. It certainly evolved during the centuries of the Common Era (CE). Canonisation is a Christian idea.

There is any number of canons, as demonstrated, with one example, through the Tanakh and the Protestant versions. (See also the Catholic version, Orthodox versions, plus many others).

Many theologians speculate that the canon should be revisited, while at the same time acknowledging that each community operates from a "canon within a canon". We can see this in the limited range of passages considered by the WTS, SDA, etc., etc.

An interesting book by an evangelical Christian is: "A High View of Scripture?" by Craig D. Allert.

Doug

22

Inspiration, inscripturation

by Doug Mason in

the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

Doug Mason

The apostle Paul stated at 2 Timothy 3:16: “All Scripture is inspired of God.” The phrase “inspired of God” translates the compound Greek word theo’pneustos, meaning, literally, “God-breathed” or “breathed by God.” This is the only occurrence of this Greek term in the Scriptures. …

Absolute inerrancy is therefore to be attributed to the written Word of God. This is true of the original writings, none of which are known to exist today. The copies of those original writings and the translations made in many languages cannot lay claim to absolute accuracy. …

In a number of cases the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures evidently made use of the Greek Septuagint translation when quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures. At times the rendering of the Septuagint, as quoted by them, differs somewhat from the reading of the Hebrew Scriptures as now known (most translations today being based on the Hebrew Masoretic text dating back to about the tenth century C.E.). …

In a few cases the quotations made by Paul and others differ from both the Hebrew and Greek texts as found in available manuscripts. …

Showing his full faith in the inerrancy of the Sacred Writings, Jesus said [Joh 10:34, 35; Mt 5:18; 22:29 - 32 ; Mr 12:24; Mt 26:54; Mr 14:27, 49 cited]. These statements, of course, apply to the pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures.

(The above statements come from: Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2, pages 1202ff, article “Inspiration”)

==========

To cope with the concept that only the original writings were "inspired" but that copies and translations are not, Christian theologians have invented the word "inscripturation":

"Thus, theologians have always said that [“inscripturation”] is an action of God (described in II Peter 1:21) which He carried out only in the giving of the original autographs, and it applies neither to copies or translations. This is what Christians have always believed. The Bible says nothing of any “re-inspiration”, a second direct act by God of immediate inspiration, in copies or translations. … A copy, unlike the inscripturated original, can contain errors. … II Peter 1:21 tells us that the Holy Spirit moved holy men to write the Scriptures. It says nothing about copies." (http://mindrenewers.com/2011/11/11/given-by-inspiration-theopneustos-context-revisited/ ).

I cover the subject in my Study at: http://www.jwstudies.com/God-breathed_Scriptures.pdf

Doug

27

New light!, says JW-Archive. The inspired word can have mistranslations, says Dec 2015 WT

by StarTrekAngel in

sorry, i know i posted this earlier but i believe the title did not gather enough attention.

i think is a topic worth discussing.. http://www.jw-archive.org/post/127866869178/new-light-the-inspired-word-of-god-can.

Doug Mason

Startrek,

Thanks for pointing out that Watchtower article. It's simply a marketing tool for their own version, but I wonder why they had to write it.

Its thrust is that others made mistakes but the Watchtower's Bible has fixed them. Indeed, the WTS says it has even improved its own version.

I doubt that any modern translator would advertise that they relied on the Masoretic Text and on Westcott and Hort. The WTS need to drag themselves out of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Despite their trumpeting of its use of "Jehovah" (even in their NT, which beggars belief), I wonder when they will drop that absurd word, pretending that this was the "Name" (Ha Shem). If they wish to follow the pronunciation from the German scholars, the first letter of "Jehovah" is soft, like the letter "Y" as in "yellow". I know this because of my mother's maiden name (Jellinek). The closest true revelation should be "Yahweh" - not that he started out as the Supreme God; that honour belongs to EL - the God of Genesis 1.

Doug

27

New light!, says JW-Archive. The inspired word can have mistranslations, says Dec 2015 WT

by StarTrekAngel in

sorry, i know i posted this earlier but i believe the title did not gather enough attention.

i think is a topic worth discussing.. http://www.jw-archive.org/post/127866869178/new-light-the-inspired-word-of-god-can.

Doug Mason

And it is interesting to note the number of times that NT writers cited writings that were later not included in the Hebrew canon. These include writings such as: 1 Enoch; 1, 2, and 4 Maccabees; 3 and 4 Esdras; Wisdom of Solomon; Sirach; etc.

See the list at "The Biblical Canon", pages 452 to 464, by Lee Martin McDonald.

Doug